Should vegans abandon their diet because they can't possibly cause zero animal deaths? From his PlayGround interview, it appears that renowned' Argentine naturalist Claudio Bertonatti thinks they should.
- Links and Sources -
https://www.instagram.com/micthevegan - @micthevegan
Main article: http://www.playground.plus/food/vegans-and-vegetarians-think-they-dont-kill-animals-but-they-do/
My Animal Consciousness Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WW8JdCLngI&t=1s
3.2 Million wild animal killed by USDA in 2015: https://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/pdr/PDR-G_Report.php?fld=&fld_val=
Beef: "1 percent of gross animal feed energy into food for people": https://www.wri.org/sites/default/files/wri13_report_4c_wrr_online.pdf
"...up to 80 percent by some estimates — has been through a feedlot." http://grist.org/sustainable-food/in-argentina-factory-farms-replacing-grass-fed-beef/
"...only 30% of the country’s original forests remain." http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/environment/beyond-the-amazon-deforestation-in-argentina
Vegans require 1/6 the land of standard omnivore diets:
Argentina Beef Consumption Ranking:
"3 million hectares of forest were destroyed in the past decade to make space for grain production and grazing land." & IICA 30% emissions from cattle. https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/cattle-industry-argentina-changing-rapidly-not-better
"At present, 35% (weight basis) of total GHG emissions come from cattle" http://inta.gob.ar/sites/default/files/script-tmp-animal_waste.pdf
70% of Amazon deforestation for cattle:
Animal Deaths per million calorie beef vs grain:
World Wildlife Foundation Argentina Cattle Problem: http://wwf.panda.org/who_we_are/wwf_offices/argentina/environmental_problems_argentina/
We used to pick crops by hand . Problem solved . It seems the more humans on this planet the less progress we make. Overpopulation requires more crop yield. More crop yield means more destruction. The arrogant human species always feels they can get themselves out of the jam they caused . How about we go down to 2 billion through attrition ( not genocide ) and not have to GMO crops so them can handle a fucking bucket of pesticides and herbicides per plant ? Now thats progress.
Lol this whole thing is a joke because literally animals are killed when they try to eat the crops that are grown the vegans eat. So the reality of the situation is vegans pay to have animals killed and just thrown away like trash. That's a fact the animals aren't even eaten. A rabbit eats vegetables because he's a vegan the rabbit is killed because he's eating your vegetables you pay for those vegetables when you pay for those vegetables you also pay for the methods to catch and dispose of those rabbits in mice and whatever rodents in animals that wish to eat
Omg, could you guys actually use scientific sources instead of bloggers and articles? If you want to argue for a subject, and try to use "science", then use peer-reviewed scientific papers, not sites that might have science sources.
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 I’m a meat eater , but think this video is And illustration how desperate some people are at making their point , when they really don’t know what the F they are talking about 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 . Shut up you desperate pathetic man 😂😂😂😂
Veganism is not sustainable for farming. It kills animals & soil unknowingly. Some plants have anti-nutrients, toxins, & poisons as a defense mechanism to not get eaten. Mono crops are bad for the soil, kill insects, birds, rodents, worms, bees, good bacteria, diversity, & are destroying rainforests. Sustainable Grass fed agriculture doesn't need mono crops or rainforests. It can turn desert landscape into amazing grasslands improving the soil / nutrients. Reverses climate change by carbon sequestration. Improves the whole ecosystem with more wildlife. Nature works if we embrace it. Factory farms & mono crops are destroying nature's circle of life & balance.
You kinda skirted around the argument. Choosing meat produced from regenerative systems does result in fewer deaths than annual mono cropping does, and it also adds to biodiversity and utilises land which is not suitable for cropping. Yes, we eat too much meat. Too much of our meat is produced in a way which is questionable from both an animal welfare and and environmental standpoint. But not all meat is like that. These over simplified, binary arguments are getting pretty tiresome. There really isn’t a moral high ground when it comes to our western lifestyle. We are all complicit.
Do you think it is fair to compare the worst plant based diets with the best omnivore diets?
Grass fed, free range cattles need even more space, more time and produce more GHG than factory farmed cattles .
And they also need hay in the winter. It takes more land for hay to produce 1kg meat than it would would need for 1kg of grains.
Can't prevent all deaths, therefore don't try to prevent any. Good point. Much logic.
I mean, I'd rather not have my diet kill any animals, but given the impossibility of that, I'll go with the option that at least kills the least.
Wint James Well meat consumption is responsible for our number one killer - heart disease - and is also a type one and type two carcinogen. If you support these meat industries you really don't care about all the humans who are being killed by being told these products are healthy and safe to eat
Lets just say, everyone become vegan. Then we need to destroy more animal habitats to grow crops in order to be able to sustain the billions of population on earth.
You just killing the animals then, by destroying their home. Or are vegans implying that the amount of crops produce right now are more than enough?
So buying produce in the store to sustain yourself is more ethical than buying local pasture raised grass fed animals products? I don't think so. Your arguments are a straw man. Yes factory farming is bad, plant and animal. But there word is getting out that's not the only way. I can feed my entire family with one cow from a local farm for weeks. The amount of plants I would need, some from thousands of miles away because seasonal produce wouldn't be enough, would contribute to many times more animals deaths from tractors, pestisides, and animals that reproduce rapidly with the food supply only to starve when it's taken away. Not to mention grazing animals replenish soil, whereas crops deplete it. If your a vegan that doesn't spread the message ALL factory farming is bad you care more about your identity as a vegan than you do animals or the environment.
Btw cows can survive on grass. It's almost like it's their natural diet or something
All vegetables are grown in soil that only exists because of insects and animals dying and their feces create this soil. Without which you would have no food. Dont tell me you eat only hydroponic food and how natural that is. Yes sorry but death IS a part of life. If you went to the countryside out of your cities you would notice this. We've been eating animals for millions of years. So do chickens. They live off smaller creatures. But its okay for them right? But humans are not allowed because we can choose to malnourish ourself to save the planet. Gimme a break. Animal foods have way way more available nutrients. Its not just about taste. Many people get sick vegan ane heal on animal flesh yes flesh I said it. People heal on vegan diets at first because they often cut out crappy foods and eat more live food etc but eventually malnutrition ensues. All tribes in the world would laugh at vegans. Veganism cant exist without modern technology to provide vitamins and food etc etc you'd all die in the wild. Stop feeling guilty for giving your body what it needs. Stop denying your instincts. Love yourselr again! You know you deserve it. Vegans would rather they are sick and suffer than animals. We are animals! The fact they think only humans deserve to suffer is insanity. Nobody deserves to suffer factory farms are terrible. But so is vegan malnutrition. Veganism can be done properly but its very hard and very expensive and doesnt help anyone anyway. The cars and planes etc are destroying the planet not cow farts lol
This is a classic vegan echo chamber because this video is complete bullshit. Killing a cow fed by grass only takes the death of one animal and can feed hundreds of people while growing plants requires the mass killing of hundreds of animals.
Using carnist logic : Hey there human rights activists did you know how many people die in construction accidents? Did you know people die in road accidents more than homicide ? (7th global killer of humans) including children crossing the street , did you know how play miners and farmers die to grow your food and collect your fossil fuels ! WELL until you build your own house , dig for your own coal , grow your own food ,and stop driving on the road I can pay hitmen to kill people for me to eat all I want you bloody hypocrites! (AT LEAST I DON'T LET THEIR BODIES GO TO WASTE)
So you think it's okay to kill thousands of wild animals to save hundreds of farm animals? Also think about this one cow can feed a whole family but how many people can eat 1 bulb of lettuce? Meat is the way to go I'm sorry. #Vegansaremurdererstoo
Real smart Mic, we want wildlife like wolves and mountain lions living near our homes instead of domesticated cattle so that when our children go out to play they can get mauled or killed by these animals. I'm perfectly happy keeping lions, tigers and bears far away from my city and away from my immediate environment, duh :)
I live in a meat country, Argentina. Meat is fed to us since the day we can chew. We grow, live and die surrounded by so many tipes of meat and their procesed forms. But that is changing, I became vegan recently and so have a few of my friends, we are finding more and more vegan products in the market aisles, more vegan shops even in a small city like mine. It gives me hope to see this slow but steady pace vegan culture is taking.
Thanks Mic, your videos are always interesting and full of reliable information.
You can get it from a vegan diet, it's not an issue. Things such as rice, legumes, beans, chickpeas and seitan are such examples of this. Animals do not have to be slaughtered in order for this criterion to be met.
How about the argument that vegans step on and kill bacteria? Species-ism! (I'm vegan).
A: Bacteria do not have a Central Nervous System and therefore cannot feel pain. Also, as stated, vegans do not believe that they do not contribute to death, but it is the most sustainable way to live and cause the least amount of harm and best health ubiquitously.
Yo you got a lot of really good facts and I actually really enjoyed this video and agree with most of it. Living out in the Sticks I can confirm that the deaths that happened in fields are a thousand times worse than what would happen in a slaughterhouse. Farmers shoot pretty much every animal that enters the field because they know they're going to eat some of the crops. Use pesticides to kill all the little animals and bugs that are too small to shoot. And when the combines come through and there are baby deer, it is not pretty. All that doesn't really happen nearly as much with animal crops though because animals are more satisfied with shity food.
God made a natural order in life. Extreme veganism, unless it is for a serious health issue, is not healthy. Soy is horrible. All this save the animals, exstemism, is a fringe group ideal, perpetuated by extreme political correctness. Many of these ideals are reinforced in schools. Educate your kids, think logically, respect and love God, and realize no matter what an individual may do, he or she still has to pass on at some point. Remember it is futile to argue with fringe groups. Let go and Let God.
I hate the cocky vegans that tjink they're so good bevause they're 'saving animals,' which is PARTLY true (however, even if they didn't purchase meat everytime they went shopping, the animals would still be dead, correct? Technically, they just aren't wasting their money to buy a certain type of food. It doesn't change much if you don't buy something in particular if it's already dead or in marketing.).
I mean, again, some vegans act so high of themselves. They aren't saving much at all. In fact, they might be causing more animal deatha in general.
I mean, I do think it's nice to speak to vegans that don't pride over themselves or demean meat-eaters just because they have a different eating habit.
Those vegans/vegetarians that do not hate on others are very kind. I've made friends with a few of them, and they accept me and others, even if we all have our differences in thought.
My friends an ex vegetarian and she always acts like she’s better than me now she eats meat ( I don’t btw) saying stuff like “oh I love meat” in front of me and saying like “ that I’m weak from not eating meat” She used to be so against eating meat but her excuse was “ I just wanna eat what I want” Why is it that her taste buds are more important than lives?
This Mic guy is intense. He doesn't really address the deaths of animals that are caused by monocropping. Sure, you can do companion planting, but the fact is that most vegans don't. Most vegans are buying the conventional lettuce at the store that was grown with fossil fuels and sprayed with glyphosate. This practice is destroying the bee population.
Eating animals and vegetables is cruel. Plants are still alive. Even though they dont make sounds. When being eaten plants send off signals to other plants. Stop the genocide of living things. Eating seeds and nuts is the equivalent to eating a unborn cow fetus. Let living things grow. You would think water is ok but its not. By drinking water you take away from water that animals need. There is a fixed supply.
Just not doing anything and changing your diet doesn’t make people stop *slaughtering* animals. I’m an omnivore but I want to promote stopping the *slaughter* of animals. Animals don’t need to be *slaughtered* key word *slaughtered*, euthanizing animals would keep them from pain. It’s sad I know, but at least we could go an give them painless deaths for the diets WE’RE build to have. And animals aren’t always these innocent creatures put them out to be (not saying they should be *slaughtered* for that) but lions eat animals while they’re alive. I’ve seen a pack wild dogs tear a baby wildebeest to pieces, a grizzly rip the leg off of a baby elk, swans commit fratricide, a lion rip an unborn baby out of a antelope, IN MY BACKYARD a WOODPECKER ate the BRAINS OF BABY GOLD FINCHES. Death is inevitable. These animals do this and people have. It’s survival. And sitting their thinking you’re some benevolent individual because you’re vegan and you complain about people not being vegan is flawed. Nature is a contrast of life and death and humans are just intertwined with that reality as wild animals are. Only we can actually change something. It’s not villainous to say, ITS A REALITY you have to deal with. And maybe, just maybe if you wedge the omnipotent godly all loving stick out of your ass you can understand that and actually do something to stop the *SLAUGHTER* of animals.
PS: Many people think they can train wild animals to stop eating meat like they do, but if that diet is against the natural diet of the animal and usually results in the malnourishment and drop in immunity in those animals, wouldn’t that just make them the killer who prolongs the death of animals?
It's sad to see members of my own species fucking stupid will a vegan or vegitairn please just finely tell me why it's ok for animals to eat meat but no for humans to do so I want a proper reason not it's murder it's unhealthy that's bullshit
Can we reinvent a new 'ism'? I'm getting tired of being identified with vegan-ism. There are few 'isms' that I like. I was converted to 'vegan-ism' by ethical argument and sensitive people. My enthusiasm has waned as I have met more 'vegans'. It seems the tendency to build up biased feelings towards a group and then your built up prejudice of that group end up being targeted at specific individuals, regardless of the personality involved. Then you find yourself on the sidelines defending your position and using facts and other statistics to defend a position. My problem is that actually, I have had some abysmal conversations with both 'omnivores' and 'vegans' alike. However, it's the conversations with the 'vegans' that sting the most. Also, philosophically speaking, the absurdity of the argument is surrounded around what one eats! Taking up so much time only demonstrates how overly successful we are as a species and our need for nutrition satisfied to the point where we need to argue about it.
Being vegan isn't natural and is completely weird! It's just unnatural! Since the dawn of man and beast, man has been at the top of the food chain. The fact you want to change that is just strange! I 100% guarantee if you went to a real doctor and not one that promotes veganism, your body is probably missing a bunch of vital nutrients. Thousands of vegans have health problems directly caused from the lack of vital nutrients meat provides. God damn, it's just weird! I'm going to go eat some rabbit now. Goodbye!
P.S. Go get yourself checked by a real doctor before you do some damage to your body that can't be undone.
Being vegan is not about "causing zero animal deaths", its about minimazing it! By killing animals directly it increases their extinction rate, while veganism is about preservance! And btw...you aren't exactly err..."killing" a plant or even do anything harmful towards it for that matter if aren't pulling out its root! Fruits and vegetables, that grow on the ground are nothing, but its fetuses! Fetuses are similar to nails on our bodies! Do you feel anything cutting off your nails? No! Similar to how a plant doesn't feel anything, when you cut off its fetus!...It is scientifically proven, plants do not have central nervous system! Without it - it can't feel anything!...But even if that theory is wrong it doesn't explain how the heck trees grow all their leafs back up during Spring season after losing all of them at fall each year!
There is no such thing as a vegan.... to be a vegan u have to eat plants and things can’t be made from animals.... correct? So what about all the animals that were killed protecting the veggies you eat? And what about the thousands of deer, ground hogs, rabbits, and crow that were shot on sight by the farmer protecting his investment? I am contracted every year by local farms for crop protection. I hold a permit to kill as many animals as I can.... as long as it’s on farm land... so when u eat corn or lettuce and say it’s vegan cause no animals were harmed in the making of that product.... that’s simply not true. The only real vegan diet is going out and grazing like a cow or goat. But you don’t have a 4 chamber stomach so that won’t work for you.
When I tell people I’m vegetarian (you know when it comes up in conversation) they are so quick to bash on vegans - warning me not to be vegan. It’s quite unfair, right? Like, we stereotype vegans as the ones that moan their opinions too much and yet it could be the other way round...? I don’t know. These are just my thoughts.
What do you want from an Argentinian, I born there and became vegetarian in 1973, believe me, it wasn't easy; thanks God I left in 1982 , went to NY and I was in heaven.Vegan since 2003.
Good job, keep it up, we have to spread the word
He is right ! Vegans and vegetarians are the ONLY people who eat rice, wheat and corn - VEGANISM IS EVIL !
***Pure sarcasm (This disclaimer is needed because the "internet" doesn't recognise sarcasm anymore)
This is the one point I could get my head around; the arguments he used are SO illogical I can't even........I can't think of anything to say to Mr Bertonatti but "stop being so stupid !!!!"
You are saying that you grow crops and stuff by deforestation. Well, come to think of it.
I never mind killing animals, because it's the law of nature to kill someone for food. But humans aren't supposed to kill animals. In the Eco system, animals way plants and other animals way them to control the population. But in humans, we are creating the excess population by forcefully breeding the chickens. Then we feed the chickens seeds and plants which can be helpful in growth of the Crops and some of than can grow into edible crops itself. Then with all that consumed food by the chicken we kill it and take at max 10% of it's energy (Mendeleev's law). So basically we are killing multiple just to achieve 10%. The humans are over populated. We need food. But then instead of investing the Crops in growing the forcefully bred chicken, isn't it better to use those crops directly for human consumption. That will end world Hunger.
Secondly, omnivorous animals are rare. That's because they are cleaners of nature or eat one or are carnovores which need a bit of non veg food. Humans are niether of these. We can survive *healthily* without non veg, because the only thing we gain excess from it is Vitamin B12. All the other things can be found in veg stuff. The humans earlier are strong because they went for hunting and stuff. But now a days humans aren't that strong that they require Vitamin B12. We are just wasting resources, forcefully breeding a complex life(we forcefully breed plants as well, but they bieng a simple species, are easily breeded), and cruelty is just one more of a thing.
Thirdly, non vegetarian food is responsible for 14% if world pollution and global warming. Industries use fuel to burn em'. By consuming organic veg food, we are avoiding that too.
By consuming excess of vitamin B12 when not needed, we are messing up our digestive system because it takes a lot of time to digest heavy vitamins like it.
Finally, the cruelty. The animals are starved before they are killed to remove the unrequired. I don't mind killing, but giving them a bad death is cruel.
Anyways those are the facts and not anyone opinion. Me bieng a man of facts is a vegetarian by choice. I suggest you guys to do the same. It will improve the humans and the nature too. Although, at last it's your opinion.
P.S. : I'm not one of those shity vegans who brag about it and treat non veg eaters in a disgusting way.
Portfolio management is the art and science of making decisions about investment mix and policy, matching investments to objectives, asset allocation for individuals and institutions, and balancing risk against performance. Portfolio management is all about determining strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats in the choice of debt vs. equity, domestic vs. international, growth vs. safety, and many other trade-offs encountered in the attempt to maximize return at a given appetite for risk.
Strategic Asset Allocation.
The Key Elements of Portfolio Management.
Portfolio Management Tips for Young Investors.
One of the reasons most often given for not investing is a lack of knowledge and understanding of the stock market. This objection can be overcome through self-education and step-by-step through the years because investors learn by investing. Classes in investing are also offered by a variety of sources, including city and state colleges, civic groups, and not-for-profit organizations, and there are numerous books aimed at the beginning investor.
Early Higher Risk Allocation.
An Exemplary Egg.
The idea is to select stocks across a broad spectrum of market categories. This is best achieved through an index fund. Aim to invest in conservative stocks with regular dividends, stocks with long-term growth potential, and a small percentage of stocks with better returns or higher risk potential.
Certain AAA-rated bonds are also good investments for the long term, either corporate or government. Long-term U.S. Treasury bonds, for example, are safe and pay a higher rate of return than short- and mid-term bonds.
Keep Costs to a Minimum.